during summer re-runs - a question

[Rob Jensen]

I'm looking for something to fill in the viewing gaps during summer re-runs,
and as someone who has managed to have never seen an episode of Dawson's
Creek, I am wondering if it's worth renting ? Where does it fall on the
quality continuum relative to Gilmore Girls ?

The first two seasons of Joey's Creek are equal to the best Gg
episodes (I totally cried at the resolution of Pacey and Andie's story
at the end of season 2), the third and fourth seasons are worthy, but
slip somewhat in quality (mostly because the novelty has worn off and
they've become too-settled into their groove) until Sasha Alexander
comes on the scene as Pacey's sister Gretchen and Dawson's reluctant
Mrs. Robinson in s4.

Season 5 worked as a worthy transition to a four-year college-show
cycle, but is undermined first by a truly terrible Joey-centric Very
Special X-Mas episode involving a mugger and The Healing Power of
Forgiveness and then by the total derailment of the show throughout
season 6. The *only* things that s6 got right were, in reverse order,
the series/season finale (which jumps ahead five years and doesn't
really count as part of s6) and the season opening two-parter, which
concluded the Dawson-Joey romance. The s6 opener iss not the
shark-jumping moment (that would be Audrey's carwreck) -- it's just
the last good moment the show has until the series finale.

I recommend watching the first four seasons straight through, then
doing what I think of as the Cliff Notes/Phantom Edit version of s5
and 6: fast-forward through everything in s5 not having to do with
Dawson (ie: all the Pacey storylines), then watch the fully first two
eps of s6, then skip everything not having to do with Dawson again
until the series finale, which is finally worth watching as a whole
again.

Yes, season 6 really is *that* bad. What they do to destroy Audrey as
a credible character in s6 is worth my warning you to *not* watch her
good storylines in s5, which would just get your hopes far too up for
s6.

-- Rob


=============================
LORELAI: In the movie, only boy hobbits travel to Mount
Doom, but that's only because the girls went to do something
even more dangerous.
GIRL: What?
LORELAI: Have you ever heard of a Brazilian Bikini Wax?

[Sharpe Fan]

Post by Rob Jensen

I'm looking for something to fill in the viewing gaps during summer re-runs,
and as someone who has managed to have never seen an episode of Dawson's
Creek, I am wondering if it's worth renting ? Where does it fall on the
quality continuum relative to Gilmore Girls ?

The first two seasons of Joey's Creek are equal to the best Gg
episodes (I totally cried at the resolution of Pacey and Andie's story
at the end of season 2), the third and fourth seasons are worthy, but
slip somewhat in quality (mostly because the novelty has worn off and
they've become too-settled into their groove) until Sasha Alexander
comes on the scene as Pacey's sister Gretchen and Dawson's reluctant
Mrs. Robinson in s4.

I thought the first three season were excellent, maybe not GG quality but
very good.

I hated season 4, beyond all reason.

Gretchen was only about three or four years older than Dawson (she is
Pacey's older sister (the youngest of three older sisters)). She was not
Dawson's mother's age, which would have made her Mrs. Robinson. The Mrs.
Robinson character was Tamara.

Post by Rob Jensen
Season 5 worked as a worthy transition to a four-year college-show
cycle, but is undermined first by a truly terrible Joey-centric Very
Special X-Mas episode involving a mugger and The Healing Power of
Forgiveness and then by the total derailment of the show throughout
season 6. The *only* things that s6 got right were, in reverse order,
the series/season finale (which jumps ahead five years and doesn't
really count as part of s6) and the season opening two-parter, which
concluded the Dawson-Joey romance. The s6 opener iss not the
shark-jumping moment (that would be Audrey's carwreck) -- it's just
the last good moment the show has until the series finale.
I recommend watching the first four seasons straight through, then
doing what I think of as the Cliff Notes/Phantom Edit version of s5
and 6: fast-forward through everything in s5 not having to do with
Dawson (ie: all the Pacey storylines), then watch the fully first two
eps of s6, then skip everything not having to do with Dawson again
until the series finale, which is finally worth watching as a whole
again.
Yes, season 6 really is *that* bad. What they do to destroy Audrey as
a credible character in s6 is worth my warning you to *not* watch her
good storylines in s5, which would just get your hopes far too up for
s6.
-- Rob

Sharpe Fan

[Rob Jensen]

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:31:14 GMT, "Sharpe Fan"

Post by Sharpe Fan

Post by Rob Jensen

I'm looking for something to fill in the viewing gaps during summer re-runs,
and as someone who has managed to have never seen an episode of Dawson's
Creek, I am wondering if it's worth renting ? Where does it fall on the
quality continuum relative to Gilmore Girls ?

The first two seasons of Joey's Creek are equal to the best Gg
episodes (I totally cried at the resolution of Pacey and Andie's story
at the end of season 2), the third and fourth seasons are worthy, but
slip somewhat in quality (mostly because the novelty has worn off and
they've become too-settled into their groove) until Sasha Alexander
comes on the scene as Pacey's sister Gretchen and Dawson's reluctant
Mrs. Robinson in s4.

I thought the first three season were excellent, maybe not GG quality but
very good.
I hated season 4, beyond all reason.
Gretchen was only about three or four years older than Dawson (she is
Pacey's older sister (the youngest of three older sisters)). She was not
Dawson's mother's age, which would have made her Mrs. Robinson. The Mrs.
Robinson character was Tamara.

I agree that Pacey/Tamara was the actual The Graduate homage, but I
was shorthanding Dawson/Gretchen, especially since the age difference
was a problem for Gretchen.

I know that a lot of Pacey fans don't like season 4 because of the
ending (I'm trying not to spoil it for the original poster), but I
totally buy into it as the thesis statement for a more ambitious
multi-year storyline about Pacey's self-esteem issues that they were
never able to pull off -- primarily because they could never figure
out a way to justify keeping Pacey in proximity to the rest of the
gang in Boston -- and that they totally gave up on by the time they
got to the horrible s6 arc where they ripped off Boiler Room and
thoroughly destroyed Pacey as a character.

But in s4, the Dawson/Gretchen was spectacular in a way that
practically demanded them bringing Gretchen back in s6 as Dawson
regained his footing (but which they never did) and even the
joey/Pacey arc worked -- far better than most fans give it credit for.
But I think the way the show botched Pacey in s5 and 6 prevented the
show from fully realizing their rationale for having Pacey unravel and
undo at the end of s4 all the maturation he had gone through in s2 and
3. Thus, the show never quite justifies the re-introduction of the
Dawson/Joey/Pacey triangle in the series finale -- the triangle as
treated in the finale in and of itself works, but when considered in
relationship to the rest of the series, it doesn't and only compounds
the story mess of the last two seasons. That's why I think it's
simpler to just recommend fast-forwarding through everything not
having to do directly with Dawson in s5 and 6 -- following Dawson only
makes a viable epilogue to s1-4.

-- Rob


=============================
LORELAI: In the movie, only boy hobbits travel to Mount
Doom, but that's only because the girls went to do something
even more dangerous.
GIRL: What?
LORELAI: Have you ever heard of a Brazilian Bikini Wax?

[Sharpe Fan]

Post by Rob Jensen
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 18:31:14 GMT, "Sharpe Fan"

Post by Sharpe Fan

Post by Rob Jensen

I'm looking for something to fill in the viewing gaps during summer re-runs,
and as someone who has managed to have never seen an episode of Dawson's
Creek, I am wondering if it's worth renting ? Where does it fall on the
quality continuum relative to Gilmore Girls ?

The first two seasons of Joey's Creek are equal to the best Gg
episodes (I totally cried at the resolution of Pacey and Andie's story
at the end of season 2), the third and fourth seasons are worthy, but
slip somewhat in quality (mostly because the novelty has worn off and
they've become too-settled into their groove) until Sasha Alexander
comes on the scene as Pacey's sister Gretchen and Dawson's reluctant
Mrs. Robinson in s4.

I thought the first three season were excellent, maybe not GG quality but
very good.
I hated season 4, beyond all reason.
Gretchen was only about three or four years older than Dawson (she is
Pacey's older sister (the youngest of three older sisters)). She was not
Dawson's mother's age, which would have made her Mrs. Robinson. The Mrs.
Robinson character was Tamara.

I agree that Pacey/Tamara was the actual The Graduate homage, but I
was shorthanding Dawson/Gretchen, especially since the age difference
was a problem for Gretchen.
I know that a lot of Pacey fans don't like season 4 because of the
ending (I'm trying not to spoil it for the original poster), but I
totally buy into it as the thesis statement for a more ambitious
multi-year storyline about Pacey's self-esteem issues that they were
never able to pull off -- primarily because they could never figure
out a way to justify keeping Pacey in proximity to the rest of the
gang in Boston -- and that they totally gave up on by the time they
got to the horrible s6 arc where they ripped off Boiler Room and
thoroughly destroyed Pacey as a character.
But in s4, the Dawson/Gretchen was spectacular in a way that
practically demanded them bringing Gretchen back in s6 as Dawson
regained his footing (but which they never did) and even the
joey/Pacey arc worked -- far better than most fans give it credit for.
But I think the way the show botched Pacey in s5 and 6 prevented the
show from fully realizing their rationale for having Pacey unravel and
undo at the end of s4 all the maturation he had gone through in s2 and
3. Thus, the show never quite justifies the re-introduction of the
Dawson/Joey/Pacey triangle in the series finale -- the triangle as
treated in the finale in and of itself works, but when considered in
relationship to the rest of the series, it doesn't and only compounds
the story mess of the last two seasons. That's why I think it's
simpler to just recommend fast-forwarding through everything not
having to do directly with Dawson in s5 and 6 -- following Dawson only
makes a viable epilogue to s1-4.
-- Rob

First deliberately watching anything to do with Dawson after season 1 or
maybe 2, if you have the option not to, is masochism. Dawson is the only
character in a TV show we are supposed to like, at least sometimes, that I
truly hated.

My problem with season 4 is not that merely that it reintroduced the P/J/D
triangle, although I hated that, it was that it spent the season deifying
Dawson and destroying Pacey. To avoid more spoilage, I will not elaborate
with examples.

And for health and sanity reasons I will drop out of this thread after this
post.

Sharpe Fan